Pace of Play – Questions and Answers

As this season has developed, some really good questions have been asked by members in one-on-one.  On reflection, these are good for all members to experience.

Q.  How do you identify individuals when all data is for a tee group?

A.  The data for any outing is collected for a group, but we do have each ID number for all players.  For each outing each tee group is responsible for their management of Pace as well as rules (ball searches, lost ball drops, max nine strokes, and so on).

Over the season, most members play in different groups.  Over time, the slowest members will have many more outings where they are in the slowest groups.  Based on 2016 data, 75 to 85% of members will have none to 2 outings where they were “slow” for the 25 week season.  Our slowest groups/members had many more outings where they were slow.

If a group of close friends always plays together and is frequently slow, all those members will be identified as “slow”.

Q. Our group got behind because two guys played really slow.  After we were way behind, they wanted to catch up by skipping a hole and taking a 9 max.  I was having a good round, why should I have to take a 9 because they were slow?

A. For any outing, if a group falls behind, ALL members of that group are responsible for taking action improve as early as possible.  

For example, if someone searches too long, the other group members MUST get them to stop and play a new ball.  If someone is over 8 strokes, others must get them to stop and record 9.  If a member is having a health or mobility problem, his group members should act to help in any way that is reasonable.  Be more active in getting them to their ball.  Help them reduce the non-golf activities.

If a group is way behind, voluntarily skipping a hole and scoring 9 is needed and should be done.  This is similar to having a marshal telling the group to move up.  He won’t care if it was the “other cart”, he won’t care if it is a good round for you.  You must move up then.

By the time skipping a hole is required, significant damage has been done.  Several groups behind are already delayed.  This will help, but still too late.

Q. I play with a couple of friends/carpool who are slow.  They don’t cooperate when I suggest that they speed up, or point out Ready Golf.  How can I not be branded as slow?

A. Do the best you can to RESPECTFULLY suggest that they speed up.  Model good play behaviors.  Stay aware of the group ahead and remind your group.

If they continue to be uncooperative, please advise the Pace of Play Committee of your concerns.  We may be able to help get the point across to the others in your group.

Consider playing with other members.  Fellowship is a key ingredient in the Association.  Playing always with the same small group keeps you from meeting other members, making new friends, and playing at a better clip.

Telling your friends that you want to play in other groups may feel awkward but friendship is a dialogue.  If they don’t respond to your needs you might question the value of the friendship.

Q. What information is used to identify slow groups?  How is it used?

A. Historically we have used total time of play and the separation gap from the group immediately ahead.  In our rules if groups play longer that 4 1/2 hours AND they finish more then 15 minutes later (separation) from the group ahead, the VP may use enforcement rules (warnings).

Data from 2016 showed significant time elements including courses, weather, cart usage (on course or Path Only), course crowding (A and B tees on Shotgun starts), 3somes or 4somes, and tee group position or order.

The Pace of Play Logs now collect more of this information plus members can make comments on the form.

For the start of 2017, we are collecting the times and conditions.  We have standardized definitions for the times to record – Start Time, Finish Time, and Scorer Time.  We calculate total times, min. max, and average play times, Start Gap, Finish Gap, Time Lost and Time Gained.

Plus, I have been refining the calculated times for total play time and the separation times.

For Total Play Time – we are still targeting course times (4 to 4 1/2 hours).  But we know that Path Only will be slower.  The fastest foursome group for the round becomes an “indicator” of course conditions – the best we could hope for, that course, that day, and so on.  The Average Time Played is yet another indicator – 50% of groups played FASTER.    Groups that are significantly (more than 10 minutes over average) will be looked at more closely.   Groups that are 30 minutes or more more than average or an hour or more slower than the fastest group will have the most focus.

I’m looking now at Time Gained or Time Lost compared to the group immediately ahead.  Example if you started 10 minutes after the group ahead AND you finished 10 minutes after the group ahead – Great! you kept up – playing at the same pace as the group ahead.

If you finished 20 minutes behind – not so good – you lost 10 minutes – almost a full hole.  But if you were behind a really fast group and you played below the Average Time – I don’t see your group as a problem.

Shotgun Starts have special data problems.  The calculations are adjusted for the A/B starts and the start separation – an A group on #5 will be finishing when the B group on #6 is just starting.

Also, slow groups impact more groups across the course.

General Guidelines

NO PROBLEMS

  • Playing rounds in less than 4 hr 25 minutes
  • Playing faster than Average Times for the round
  • Playing 0 to 15 minutes over Average but Gaining Time on a slower group ahead (they delayed you)

SLOW GROUPS

  • Playing more than 30 minutes over Average for the round
  • Playing more than 60 minutes longer than the fastest foursome
  • Playing more than Average AND Lost Time of 10 minutes or more (Finish Gap will be about 15 to 20 minutes)

SLOW PLAYERS

  • Playing in “slow” groups frequently (more than 3 times)

Q. What will be done with “slow” groups and players?

A. Our rules currently allow for the VP to issue warnings for each incident of “slow play”.  After at least 3 warnings, the VP may recommend sanctions up to and including termination of membership for specific players or groups.

We will begin enforcement for slow play starting June 1 2017.

Each Division VP will review the data and consider if and when warnings should be issued.  VPs may request that slow groups “split up” or limit play (Split Tee Starts only and only as the last group starting).  We may ask for “mentors” to play with some of the group to offer suggestions or to evaluate players ability to play at pace.  We want the slow groups to improve.

Groups or players will be subject to membership termination for:

  • Consistently and continuing Slow Play
  • Lack of significant improvement – for the most part if the group simply plays 1 minute per hole faster that would make them 18 minutes faster.  Big improvement – it can be done.
  • Lack of cooperation

Q. We let a faster 3some play through. Why did we get identified as slow when we lost time for the play through and were letting group play faster.

A. If your total play time was over average and you finished more than 10 minutes behind the group immediately ahead, you would be highlighted as slow for that round.  The 3 could not have played through if you were staying up with the group ahead of you.  If you kept up with your original forward group, or the 3some, no problems.  If the group behind the 3some caught up to your group, more evidence that your group was slow for course, conditions, and field that day.

If you made comments about the play through on the Pace of Play Log, it would help all to understand and correct the calculations.

Q. My number showed up in two different groups for the same outing, how can you punish me when data is wrong?

A. Data entry on the log sheets is not perfect. Sloppy handwriting, erasures, transposed numbers, wrong numbers – all happen.  This is same as Universal Scorecards and some members miss a flight prize because they signed on an incorrect scorecard.  This happens on every outing in every Division.  Even with Starters and Scorers reviewing the data, we have errors.  The good news,

  • We are looking for ONLY the slowest groups, usually only 1 to 3 groups per outing
  • We are only looking for consistently slow groups/individuals – 3 rounds minimum.
  • If you (your group) enter the data on the Pace Log sheet, maybe you will get it right (Starters and Scorers can make mistakes in moving information from USC to Log Sheets)
  • The data will be available and you can challenge when you see an error.
  • VPs and Pace of Play Committee (and ultimately Board) will oversee data and any enforcement
  • We don’t want to punish anyone, we are simply asking them to play a little faster and be considerate of all our other members.
  • With 7 weeks, we have over 2600 member/times entered.  There were a few garbled numbers, a few transposes, and I’m sure somewhere I keyed in something wrong.  But, I’m confident that error rates are low and will have almost no impact on identifying our consistently slower players.
  • Finally, if our slowest groups improve 1 minute or two a hole, we won’t have to do any of this.

Pace of Play – YTD Status – May 2017

THANK YOU!

You made significant improvements to Pace of Play already in the first 7 weeks of 2017.

Even considering weather, course conditions, and course load (attendance), Pace is significantly better for 2017 as compared to 2016.

We have average times running 15 to 20 minutes faster than last year.  That is a huge improvement.  With the rain, wet fairways, and path only for many rounds it is even more significant,

We still have work to do.  About 1/3 of our rounds had maximum time of 5 hours and more.  Although slow tee groups made up only about 10%, up to 40% of members will suffer when following a slow group.

3 rounds were especially slow, averaging about 5 hours.  Weather, high rough, wet fairways and course crowding were factors.  But this simply made our slowest players play even slower.  Our fastest groups still got around  at a quick pace.

What is a “slow group”?

Slow Groups are clearly identified with:

  • Total Play Time over 4 hr 25 min.
  • Total Play Time significantly more than the Average Play Time for outing – more than 10 minutes and most 20 to 30 minutes longer.
  • Time Lost against the group immediately ahead more than 10 to 15 minutes
  • Total Play Time >>> Minimum Play Time – more than 45 minutes

Your group won’t be slow if

  • Total Play time is < 4:25
  • Keeping up with the group ahead, within 8 to 10 minutes

You can have one slow round once in a while – stuff happens.

Our primary concern are groups that are chronically slow – 2 to 3 slow outings over a short period.  As an example, in the first 7 weeks we have several members who were in slow groups for 3 or 4 of the first 7 events.   We are already asking these folks to improve more.  If you have a string of slow times, you will be asked to improve ASAP.

Your Division VP has the details from the Pace of Play logs and a summary of our slowest players, dates, times, and more.

Enforcement starts June 1 

The first 7 weeks were for data collection and testing.  We are now ready to roll out enforcement.

Starting June 1. our VPs will begin reviewing for slow play.  Warnings may be issued.  Slow groups will be asked to improve. Some groups may be asked to break up, play with  others.  Some groups may be limited to playing only in 3 somes or playing in the last group for tee starts.

Member cooperation is critical.

 

Complaints – Contact me – David Wicks, dlwicks@sbcglobal.net

For more details of the first 7 weeks see below.

Download (PDF, 141KB)

 

 

Access Issues for OurGolfStats.com – Login Page

 

This link currently goes to the OurGolfStats Login Page –http://ourgolfstats.com/index.php From there you should be able to use all the Metro Seniors features in OurGolfStats.

We noticed a problem on the old website address links a few weeks ago. Craig Carothers implemented a solution and posted on the Metro Seniors Website for Craig’s explanation and suggestions. This is a link to the original post. https://www.golfstlseniors.org/access-to-ourgolfstats-com/

This did seem to work, but the problem seems to have redeveloped for the many redirects.

Some other links do work. Links to the Green Sheets  http://ourgolfstats.com/ms_weekly_results_dir2017.php

PLEASE CHANGE YOUR BOOKMARKS / FAVORITES for OurGolfStats

To see Roster, Handicaps, Flights, COurse Handicaps and Tees, Flight Results, and other reports

We recommend that you

  1. Erase all current bookmarks for the OurGolfStats site.
  2. Then paste this link into your browser address bar. http://ourgolfstats.com/index.php
  3. When the OurGolfStats login page comes up, BOOKMARK this page wherever you want a quick access to login to OurGolfStats

Now you should be fixed up.

 

ALSO – internet search engines (google and bing) WILL NOT give working website links for OurGolfStats.  You must enter the address and/or bookmark the address above to get the the working login page.   CLICK HERE

Special Events Leaders (and contacts)

We are fortunate to have a great volunteer pool.  Leading our Special Events is a great example.

Leadership for our Special Events

Frank Mantia – Special Events Committee Chair

  • 1st 100 – Frank Mantia  mantiafb@hotmail.com
  • 2 Man Ryder Cup – Frank McLaughlin  fmmcl@hotmail.com
  • Super Seniors – Don Woodrome  dcwoodman@aol.com
  • 2 Man Pick Your Partner – Bob Zaruba  zubie27@yahoo.com
  • Founders Day – Bill Moltz   wfmolz@yahoo.com
  • Same Flight Individual Play – Larry Roth   larry@lgr-sri.com

Rick Hines is handling the Registration and Payment System, and Manages the Entry and Wait Lists

CONTACTS for Information (and Cancellations if necessary)

  • Registration, Entry Lists and Wait Lists –  please contact Rick Hines  metroseniors@charter.net
  • Event rules, setup,and volunteering – Contact the specific event leader
  • Cancellations  – Contact the Event Leader by phone or email, and include an email to Rick Hines.

 

 

Dennis Carter – New Treasurer for Metro Seniors

Dennis Carter, Division 1 member, volunteered and been accepted as the new Treasurer for Metro St. Louis Seniors Golf.  Dennis has been a Board Director for Division 1.  As Treasurer, he stay on the Board of Governors.  He has been a member of the Handicap Committee.  Dennis also volunteered on the Pace of Play Committee.

Ed Gauthier, our most recent Treasurer, is spending more time with his family out of town and resigned earlier this year.  We do want to thank Ed for his past service.  He made many important contributions to our accounting.  Ed is also continuing to assist us into the future with our association taxes.

Bob Zaruba, our President, was filling in as Treasurer until now.

Our Current Board of Governors, Officers and Committees

Download (PDF, 8KB)

 

 

Division 1, May 5 at Legacy Canceled

Division 1 May 5 Weekly Tournament at The Legacy has been canceled.

Bryan Stitch at The Legacy said,

“As feared earlier in the week, when I called to inform you of the golf course conditions, we will not be able to host tomorrow’s senior event.
We have received another 2.25 inches since yesterday, and most of the course in under water.  Have not been able to cut anything in a week except greens, and some aprons and tees.  It is simply unplayable at this point.
Hopefully this rain will soon end and we can get back to this great game of golf.”
So Division 1, take the time to help a friend affected by the flooding, clean up your clubs and bag, do something nice for someone.  Use use this free time to good purpose.

May 4 Golf Canceled – Divisions 3, 4, and 5 – Possible reschedule

May 4 Weekly Tournaments for Divisions 3, 4, and 5 have been canceled for possible reschedule.

The forecast rain, cold and difficult course conditions would lead to low turnout and a poor member experience.

Please see the VP announcements and respond as requested by VP for possible reschedules.

Division 3 – Gary Maule – Rescheduled to May 23, Tuesday

The rained-out May 4 Div 3 Belk Park tournament has been scheduled for the same time on Tuesday, May 23 at Belk Park.

Please put this reservation on your calendar; I will send out another announcement in this regard on May 18.

Belk Park Starters and Scorers, please re-confirm your May 23 availability ASAP.

Regards, Gary (636-443-9645)

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Division 4 – George Arft – Reschedule May 24
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Division 5 – Rick Hines – Reschedule May 9
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